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Weird.

  • Oct. 27th, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Why would someone read a book clearly titled erotic romance and then complain that the sex tropes are icky? Especially when we are talking about common tropes here - threesomes, double penetration, BDSM, et cetera.

I'm reading a thread on AAR (I know, it's AAR forums, a bastion of conservative readers), where this reader talks about tearing apart - literally, or so she claims - a Maya Banks book due to the sexual elements that she found objectionable.  Here's the thing: when I read an erotic romance, I expect sex scenes that push the envelopes. In fact, due to the ubiquity of the tropes, some elements in erotic romance now seem tame to me. I've talked in my reviews about the Neighborhood BDSM Sex Club Just Around The Corner That Everyone, Even Your Granny, Knows About, for example. Or how every hero or heroine is now running a brothel without encountering legal complications. Or how two men can happily decide, "Yay for fisting!" and go at it without copious preparation involving lube and what not. Or how double penetrations can always take place spontaneously, without any hitch or even a "Uh... my back's killing me, how about a change of position?" Or how a woman can service more than two men in one night without breaking a sweat and experiencing any discomfort. But at the end of the day, these are what make erotic fiction what they are.

Erotic romance should be risky. They should challenge the reader as much as they arouse. That's the whole point of erotic fiction. You start reading, you get off, and you have fun. 

Reading an erotic romance while expecting the author to conform to your comfort zone is a ridiculous concept, because the author cannot read your mind and tailoring an erotic romance to the most basic denominator means that it would turn out to be vanilla rather than erotic. There should be more than missionary positions in erotic romance. THAT'S THE POINT OF THE WHOLE GENRE!

Therefore, when reading a book by any erotic romance author, the reader should be aware that there is a chance that she may be squicked or offended. And when this happens, it may not be because the author is a bad writer, she writes "trash", or she is secretly an amoral slut. YOU could be the problem here. YOU do not find the fantasies erotic. This doesn't mean that you are "wrong" to find the fantasies icky. It just means that the erotic romance has failed to click with you. Move on, pass the book to someone else who enjoy the sexual fantasy, and go read something else. Like a non-erotic romance story. If you open an erotic romance expecting to pass judgment on the characters' sexual behavior or the "acceptability" factor of the sexual scenes, then you probably shouldn't be reading that genre in the first place.

PS: Sorry for the tone, but I'm a bit tired of erotic romances becoming the punching bag of every other person in the genre.

Comments

( 27 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]ajennuine wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2009 12:43 pm (UTC)
The "awed and shocked" thing happens in other genres too. For example, I've seen emails and discussions on how disgusting it is to have such real topics as trafficking of women and violence towards women and children in spy/adventure books. The usual scolding starts/ends with "I read to be entertained and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for using this important issue for your story." Um. Okay. No gunrunning women-trafficking bad guys in romantic suspense.

There are also readers who are shocked over the magic in paranormals. Or suggested sex with animal-forms. Crazy, isn't it, that a werewolf can't sexxor a female werewolf while in werewolf form (even without details)?

[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2009 10:52 pm (UTC)
That's another peeve that makes my eyes roll. Readers who pick up a romantic suspense with a serial killer on the loose, and then complain about the scenes in which the serial killer murders his victims, especially. What do they expect?

Another one - readers who pick up a historical romance featuring a mistress or courtesan heroine and then complain when the heroine is not a virgin. No kidding, darling, which part of "mistress"/"courtesan" do they not understand?
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 31st, 2009 12:19 pm (UTC)
Romantic suspense whinge
Count me in as a current Rom-Susp whinger and getting worse. Not over any aspect of nasty serial killer scenes, but because of the label ROMANTIC. If there's little to no romance, why not label it suspense? Oh, I know, because the market is bigger for Rom-Susp. Give me JR Robb, Jill Sorenson (she gets it -- both elements get equal treatment), older Linda Howards -- just to name a few -- but the current equation of tepid H/H story + gruesome Villain does not appeal to me. Janet W
[info]oracne wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2009 05:50 pm (UTC)
YES YES YES!!!

(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2009 08:57 pm (UTC)
hear hear
Someone should really inform Jane at Dear Author of this concept. She really hates erotic romance/erotica, and equates explicit sex scenes with bad writing. If she doesn't like sex, why does she keep reading about it?
[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 27th, 2009 10:48 pm (UTC)
Re: hear hear
To be fair, I don't think Jane hates erotica as much as she hammers on badly written erotica. Anyway, let's not turn this into a DA-bashing thread.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 12:43 am (UTC)
Re: hear hear
Really? Badly written? Does Jane have the last say in that? I think Jane does it for the humor. The sense of humor she sadly thinks she has, but clearly is lacking.
[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 01:53 am (UTC)
Re: hear hear
Whatever issues you have with Jane Litte, take it elsewhere.

Better yet, arrange for a Celebrity Death Match style fight so that we can all watch and enjoy.

Just don't do it here. The AAR Stupid Brigade has arrived, and I hate to have a similarly inclined committe from DA to drop by too.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 12:01 am (UTC)
No, by all means, leave it as an AAR-bashing rant.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 12:24 am (UTC)
While you're bashing AAR. . .
It may interest Mrs. Giggles to know that Erica Jong, one of the masters of the explicit erotica genre, is currently sitting on the AAR's Board of Directors, as is Judy Blume (author of such sexually explicit works as FOREVER. . ., SMART WOMEN, etc.)
[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 01:51 am (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Well, hello. The Stupid Brigade has arrived.
[info]ajennuine wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 02:37 am (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Heh. The Stupid Brigades always forget their names.

I'm still cracking up at your "My back is killing me...can we change positions" bit. How true! And the gungho right here-right now! fisting, heeheehee. You should put these gems for one of your wonderfully hilarious posts, maybe with the title, "Conversations Not Heard in Erotica." :D Dammit, now I want to use that for my blog!
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 12:01 pm (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Re: forgetting names. You're right, it's much better to post using a real name, like Mrs. Giggles. Well call me Mrs. Laughmyassoff. And so very smart to insult posters who take the time to post on your site.
[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 01:09 pm (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Please tell me your brand of utter stupidity is not contagious. I'd hate to have to do something drastic, like banning you and then fumigating the whole place.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 01:18 pm (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Obviously, by your comments, stupidity is contagious. OOOhhh, I'm banned - I won't be able to come back to this intellectually superior site.
[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 01:23 pm (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Boy, you are really not good in coming up with comebacks, are you?
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 02:39 pm (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Wow. Such venom, such hatred. NOW I understand many of the opinions I've read concerning Mrs. Giggles and her brand of humor, which is disappointing; I've often thought perhaps she was merely misunderstood. After visiting today, though, I realize those readers understand all too well. What in the world do you find insulting in a reader stating her opinion, Mrs. Giggles---the fact that hers doesn't agree with yours?
[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 02:41 pm (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Did I mention that you look utterly ridiculous in that... thing you're wearing?

Looking at all the different IP numbers from you guys pretending to be the same person, I can only wonder whether this is some kind of new entertainment for bored cyber sisters. Don't you guys have some WankyFail thing to get hot and bothered over?

Edited at 2009-10-28 02:43 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 03:02 pm (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Ummm, did it ever occur to you that we ARE different people who are just posting as Anonymous cuz we don't want to take the time to create an account? Talk about stupid. Isn't freedom of speech wonderful? However, I would argue that threatening to ban a poster for stating his or her own opinion is not. (Although I'm sure the president of Iran would disagree with me and back your threats wholeheartedly). You might want to get that fumigation spray ready - you're apt to see an influx of anonymous posters from the Stupid Brigade today, and get more than you average 5 comments. Probably from DA too.
[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 03:06 pm (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
You just keep becoming more and more amusing. I can't wait for you to bring up the Holocaust next. Do I look good in my SS uniform?
[info]ajennuine wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2009 12:19 am (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Wow, are they really from AAR, Mrs. Giggles? I'm getting confused over which are the Giggle/DA/Jane/erotica bashers or whet acther they are actually just one person commenting.
[info]mrsgiggles00 wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2009 01:54 am (UTC)
Re: While you're bashing AAR. . .
Doubt it. The same person bashing Jane is also bashing AAR and bashing me for bashing them (confused yet?). Someone is just bored, that's my guess.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 03:48 am (UTC)
I agree in principle, but given that the author is Maya Banks, I wonder if more is going on. I read one of her books and was beyond squicked--not at anything sexual, but at some gender roles and assumptions that bothered me. If it had been sexy role play, fine, whatever--but that wasn't the case. This was a couple of heroines whose appeal appeared to be that they were abused, victimized, and helpless.

Anyway, that's obviously not the AAR commenter's primary issue... but that kind of subtext could be contributing to her reaction. (Or not; I have no idea of her reading tastes. I'm just playing devil's advocate because the Banks mention reminded me of my own reaction.)

RfP (http://www.readforpleasure.com)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 05:04 am (UTC)
The two books I tried from her had paedophilia-ish undertones that didn't sit well with me. And I can only suspend my disbelief so much when reading. Young, hot billionaires cropping up like bunnies--yes. Three brothers happily sharing one woman--no.

- Ann Bruce
(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 28th, 2009 04:45 am (UTC)
I enjoy reading romances that push the envelope sexually. I especially like it when an author can suck me into the story despite me not personally being into the freakfest they are depicting.

Morgan Hawke's Victorious Star was like that for me. There are some scenes in that book where I thought -"Wow - that just sounds very very painful." Other scenes kinda squicked me and yet...I still enjoyed the book. Her sex scenes were integral to the plot and I understood the appeal of the extreme sex for the characters, even though I myself don't find some of those acts sexy.
(Plus one of the male heroes was an alien with two, TWO penises!)

lil


(Anonymous) wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2009 05:28 pm (UTC)
I've also enjoyed this Morgan Hawke's series although I started skipping some of the sex scenes. A little too much for me even though they are well integrated into her storylines.

It's just well I want to explore more of the universe that she's created because that interests me more than pushing the sexual envelope further than she already has. Give me the sex (she writes that very well) but give me even more world because damn she's created a mighty interesting universe and I want more of that universe. And well perhaps a little more female equality. I'd like to think that the heroine actually had a real option besides the "heroes" at the end of the story. It's taking the fictional bdsm "slave" concept a little too far for comfort for my personal preference.

Oh, I'm over the novelty of the double penises but I'd wouldn't hesitate to read more stories set in this universe.

Does anyone know what she's doing these days? I know she released a novel and a short or two with Keningston a few years ago and the M/M romance with Loose-id but other than that she's been rather quiet for quite some time. Does that mean she's been working on something big or that she's no longer writing? Anyone know?
(Anonymous) wrote:
Nov. 2nd, 2009 07:50 pm (UTC)
Weird too
It's happening everywhere. Are there a few people who are going around stirring stuff up, or is it just that time of year?
The Haters.
Sorry, I don't get on with LiveJournal, I'm not anonymous really, I'm Lynne Connolly. I just can't work out how to put that without registering.
Do we have a Supertroll? I know the identities of at least three of the major trolls, and I'm guessing you know more, mainly from IP id's and suchlike. Maybe we have One Troll To Rule Them All?
And yay on erotic romance. I write it, I read it, mainly because I enjoy it. Yay for sex. Just read a cracking BDSM book, not my scene and yes, some of the scenes squicked me out, but it was really well written. I can't review it, because I don't review books I share publishers with, but I wish I could.
( 27 comments — Leave a comment )

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